Crush Live Poker lead pro, Bart Hanson examines a high stakes poker hand involving a slow played pocket kings holding preflop. Sean calls in with a $25-$50 …
23 Responses
One of my theories about the game is that back 4betting preflop is just not a good strategy. It is almost always exploitative, because it doesn't make sense as a balanced play: you want to do it either just for value against people who squeeze too often and/or who don't believe that you can call strong, or either just as a bluff against people who don't believe that you can backraise weak. There isn't really a situation where it's a good play with KK and also with ATo or whatever, it's always one that would benefit you massively while the other would be pretty bad. Generally speaking I think it looks way too strong and I think most people are fooling themselves that they're doing it with enough bluffs, imo you can just fold a ton against that sort of play and be fine.
This is why you don't flat with strong hands such as pocket kings.
The big blind was making a squeeze play and didn't expect to have any callers. Once he flops trips, he maximizes his good fortune and gets doubled up by the person who created his own demise by flatting in the first place.
i actually hate how this hand is played all around . sorry bart, i dont know how you could say thats theres nothing he did wrong in this hand . if you are scared of an asian guy utg raising with kings and you just flat call, your asking for trouble. 99% times should be 3 betting KK. were 3 betting so light nowadays, we NEED to be 3 betting KK pre
Everyone has their input in as usual with minimal context and I'm no different. If UTG (who folded and is not very deep) is very nitty 3betting with Kings is a must. If he has a very strong range and you have KK pre that's a good thing. Sometimes you'll get it in vs AA and lose other times you'll be ahead. I'd rather make a tiny mistake preflop for shallower stacks preflop than create a scenario I've rarely been in against a large stack post flop. In chess there's a metric called centipawn mistake I consider lateral. I'd rather make centiblind mistakes than large mistakes post flop. Sure small mistakes preflop add up quickly but we're humans and will never achieve anywhere near pure GTO so we should be looking to make things easier and mistake minimizing when playing deep than continually be put in these low sample road less traveled spots. I hope if you made it this far you appreciate long-windedness.
I can get in board w flat pre vs V squeeze range here. As it basically uncaps ur range. And I think you should be mixing in both flats n 4bets, in position, in this spot. Oop. I'd say 4bet. Especially against multiple v-s. As played, unless this guy is a pro. Or u have a very good read. Villians Min click check raise turn, jam river. Just screams fold 1 pair. As was hero's gut feeling. Live play vs rec players, even at this level, i feel is still exploitative in nature alot of the time. N i understand the whole argument of "well if ur not calling off w top of range here. What are you calling w" blah blah blah. Given this action… still think hero can get away from it on river.
a businessman that hasn’t shown any bluffs min raises turn, shoves river. This spot has exploitative fold written all over it. Also the hero in his hand needs the balances four betting range so his hand isn’t face up.
I think the KK flat preflop is the right move against a nitty asian utg – against typical tightish utg player AKs AA KK most QQ and some A5s as 3-bet on button. Against super nit don't even bother 3betting
Three bets A2 suited from the BB into a tight UTG raise and 2 callers. For me that's a call and hope for nut flush draw or trip 2's, not in a million years am I raising with that hand.
That's why I like to wake A2 up utg w a 3 bet w Kings from cut off. It's too painful when they connect. From the blinds only once in awhile. Painful hand.
You have to 4bet this hand. Other than that played it well. Spaz would shove AKDD also could Be over valuing JJ—QQ although he probably doesn’t take this line giving hero’s strength
Why the hero want to play on such high SPR with KK versus, possibly multiple opponents? Maybe I'm playing scared, but for me its 4BET 100% of time, without being result oriented
This seems like a slam dunk call if you're worried about playing GTO. That said, if you're confident that you're beat based off of instinct or tells I really dont mind a fold given. Some villains just dont have bluffs in a spot like this so folding becomes pretty reasonable even though we're very near the top of our range.
@Bart if you could please make a video on the 44 hand in a 3bet pot on 964 board… Believe they were 5 handed in a 510 game. Would make for a good video discussion. I was in the live chat talking about hero possibly having a hand like A9s or T9s so more 9s in heros range.. But ill save rest of my comments for that video if you make it.
Utg ($7k) $200 Hero ($35k) CO KcKs calls SB calls BB (17.9k) squeeze $1,250 Utg fold, hero calls, sb folds. Flop ($2900) 9h2c2d BB cbet $750, H calls. Turn ($4400) 9h2c2d6d BB X, hero $2600, BB Xr $6500, hero calls River ($17,400) 9h2c2d6dTc BB all in $9300, H calls.
*BB has zero diamond flush draw bluffs on the turn when he XMR basically. Played closer to a AA maybe a mergy QQ hand.
*I think hero can jam turn rather than hoping river goes check check. Just half pot size bet left on the river. Do you fold if river is Q? A? What card are you folding on the river?
One of my theories about the game is that back 4betting preflop is just not a good strategy. It is almost always exploitative, because it doesn't make sense as a balanced play: you want to do it either just for value against people who squeeze too often and/or who don't believe that you can call strong, or either just as a bluff against people who don't believe that you can backraise weak. There isn't really a situation where it's a good play with KK and also with ATo or whatever, it's always one that would benefit you massively while the other would be pretty bad. Generally speaking I think it looks way too strong and I think most people are fooling themselves that they're doing it with enough bluffs, imo you can just fold a ton against that sort of play and be fine.
This is why you don't flat with strong hands such as pocket kings.
The big blind was making a squeeze play and didn't expect to have any callers. Once he flops trips, he maximizes his good fortune and gets doubled up by the person who created his own demise by flatting in the first place.
i actually hate how this hand is played all around . sorry bart, i dont know how you could say thats theres nothing he did wrong in this hand . if you are scared of an asian guy utg raising with kings and you just flat call, your asking for trouble. 99% times should be 3 betting KK. were 3 betting so light nowadays, we NEED to be 3 betting KK pre
Can’t V play a worse overpair this way given our capped range pre?
Everyone has their input in as usual with minimal context and I'm no different. If UTG (who folded and is not very deep) is very nitty 3betting with Kings is a must. If he has a very strong range and you have KK pre that's a good thing. Sometimes you'll get it in vs AA and lose other times you'll be ahead. I'd rather make a tiny mistake preflop for shallower stacks preflop than create a scenario I've rarely been in against a large stack post flop. In chess there's a metric called centipawn mistake I consider lateral. I'd rather make centiblind mistakes than large mistakes post flop. Sure small mistakes preflop add up quickly but we're humans and will never achieve anywhere near pure GTO so we should be looking to make things easier and mistake minimizing when playing deep than continually be put in these low sample road less traveled spots. I hope if you made it this far you appreciate long-windedness.
I can get in board w flat pre vs V squeeze range here. As it basically uncaps ur range. And I think you should be mixing in both flats n 4bets, in position, in this spot. Oop. I'd say 4bet. Especially against multiple v-s. As played, unless this guy is a pro. Or u have a very good read. Villians Min click check raise turn, jam river. Just screams fold 1 pair. As was hero's gut feeling. Live play vs rec players, even at this level, i feel is still exploitative in nature alot of the time. N i understand the whole argument of "well if ur not calling off w top of range here. What are you calling w" blah blah blah. Given this action… still think hero can get away from it on river.
Bart is a low key tool
This caller is the perfect definition of a whale who thinks because he has money, that he is good at poker. He is not
This call makes that tool Jessie's phone calls even more boring
a businessman that hasn’t shown any bluffs min raises turn, shoves river. This spot has exploitative fold written all over it. Also the hero in his hand needs the balances four betting range so his hand isn’t face up.
I think the KK flat preflop is the right move against a nitty asian utg – against typical tightish utg player AKs AA KK most QQ and some A5s as 3-bet on button. Against super nit don't even bother 3betting
The 4-bet backraise can never be a bluff, so the question is are we face-up and/or just going to get stacked every time villain can beat an over pair?
If you aren't four betting this pre….then what exactly is your 4 bet range??
Three bets A2 suited from the BB into a tight UTG raise and 2 callers. For me that's a call and hope for nut flush draw or trip 2's, not in a million years am I raising with that hand.
Was expecting 99 or an AK or AQ with the Ad type hand.
This was a great hand for analysis!
I’m not understanding why guy doesn’t think “businessman” would do this w/ JJ n QQ?
That's why I like to wake A2 up utg w a 3 bet w Kings from cut off. It's too painful when they connect. From the blinds only once in awhile. Painful hand.
You have to 4bet this hand. Other than that played it well. Spaz would shove AKDD also could
Be over valuing JJ—QQ although he probably doesn’t take this line giving hero’s strength
Why the hero want to play on such high SPR with KK versus, possibly multiple opponents?
Maybe I'm playing scared, but for me its 4BET 100% of time, without being result oriented
Thanks for video Bart, just a point, if you could revealed villains hand later in call woulda been better.was a bit early in the frame
This seems like a slam dunk call if you're worried about playing GTO. That said, if you're confident that you're beat based off of instinct or tells I really dont mind a fold given. Some villains just dont have bluffs in a spot like this so folding becomes pretty reasonable even though we're very near the top of our range.
@Bart if you could please make a video on the 44 hand in a 3bet pot on 964 board… Believe they were 5 handed in a 510 game. Would make for a good video discussion. I was in the live chat talking about hero possibly having a hand like A9s or T9s so more 9s in heros range.. But ill save rest of my comments for that video if you make it.
Utg ($7k) $200
Hero ($35k) CO KcKs calls
SB calls
BB (17.9k) squeeze $1,250
Utg fold, hero calls, sb folds.
Flop ($2900) 9h2c2d
BB cbet $750, H calls.
Turn ($4400) 9h2c2d6d
BB X, hero $2600, BB Xr $6500, hero calls
River ($17,400) 9h2c2d6dTc
BB all in $9300, H calls.
*BB has zero diamond flush draw bluffs on the turn when he XMR basically. Played closer to a AA maybe a mergy QQ hand.
*I think hero can jam turn rather than hoping river goes check check. Just half pot size bet left on the river. Do you fold if river is Q? A? What card are you folding on the river?