Except for laws prohibiting the sale of drugs to minors and driving while impaired, all laws that penalize drug production, distribution, possession, and use …
6:49 Imagine if these drugs were legal, of course with an age limit like beer, cigarettes, etc. the costs of these could be reduced so much and we could use that money on better mental health institutions or something to make people not want them in the first place
If drugs were legal in America, %80 of black American males would die almost immediately, %15 would capitalize on the opportunity, while the last %5 would just keep going to work.
Look at San Francisco where I live it is a complete shit hole and people are riding away I mean literally rotting away it’s like The Walking Dead and there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of laws and was fucking city regulation does not work
While I agree that adults should be allowed to "kill themselves" as they choose, not only should society not be OBLIGATED/FORCED to help them, those who are in prison for drug crimes still have no one to blame but themselves. Make it legal…THEN you can use it. If you got caught in an act that was a crime when you did it, you have no one to blame but yourself & we're not obligated to wipe it off of your record once it's been legalized. Unless you ONLY performed the act under complete duress, I have no sympathy for your actions, regardless of my views on the act.
16:15 When Mr. Berenson said we should "keep cannabis, at most, in a decriminalized state", he contaminated any hope he had of making a principled argument against legalization.
as far as the libertarian perspective goes, it is pretty obvious. they have the right to make bad decisions as long as it doesn't interfere with everyone's lives too much.
Drug use should be Decriminalized and professional treatment should be available for addicts. But, some drugs are just too dangerous to make legal. Legalization of a drug promotes the idea that a drug is socially acceptable for use, like sugar. And we know what sugar has done to the health of many individuals, including children.
Berenson is an ass and an idiot. I don’t say this to dismiss his opinion, but to chastise the SoHo forum for picking such a trashy debater. I could have done a better job than him and I’m on the opposite side.
I would kill every single person who uses hard drugs by the million if you lined them up for me and gave me a revolver. Right in the face, no mercy. I have no sympathy for those pieces of shit. Try living in a building with these people and tell me what a great idea it is to let people do heroin or meth.
Alex you're a fuckin idiot. I used meth on a dailey basis for 39 yrs, no arrests, no hospital, no needles, no big withdrawal, quit cold turkey May 19, 2016. Quit smoking after 37 yrs in 99, cold turkey, no cravings. So get fucked, no better yet GO FUCK YOURSELF, ASSHOLE.
Tripolar cause Mania and Depression aren't Enough.
Depression causes bad actors. Being depressed should be a crime and depressed people should be jailed. You can't just count a percentage of current prisoners, but must include all who ever were imprisoned. Prison destroys most lives going forward, and if they then go to jail later for another crime, you can't just blame the next crime, but the drug crime that put them into the system where they never could escape. Using the law to force one adult's behavior because it "may harm" some people who "have a predisposition to psychosis" is no way to run a country. By that measure, all must be illegal because a psychotic person can make a balcony dangerous. Speech and religion can bring some people to violence. Some Muslims take the message and kill large numbers of people to terrorize (not to even get justice). All of this is nonsense. Only the commission of violence is bad, not any action that could cause it among some people when exposed to some amount….
I agree with discouraging their use. Like he said, tobacco usage rates decreased when social stigma was applied, no legislation was needed. Social stigma will keep hard drug rates low regardless of legislation.
I may have missed it, but it seems like he just brushes off the higher rates of standardized mortality as being definitely a result of the drugs being more dangerous and not a complicated set of feedback loops induced by prohibition, that involve the pharmacological effect of the drug, cutting agents, potencies, and the socioeconomic conditions imposed by prohibition.
Why do you think a free and educated people will rush to use opioids like they do alcohol? Most who do not use these do not skip them just because they are illegal — they are certainly available — but because they are smart citizens. Imagine free citizens vs. childlike ones that can only act based on the approval of the state. That's absurd tyranny that drives the crimes and desperation he finds to be ills. We have guns, but we don't all kill each other. We have cars, but we don't mow each other down regularly. We have high roofs and cliffs without jumping off them. We have knives without stabbing one another. We have high fat foods without forcing others to eat them.
I’m on the side of decriminalizing drugs but I will say that most of the people on my side haven’t met a meth head and are pretty ignorant at what it can do to a community. There is always a point where peoples personal choices begin to affect the people around them.
The most potent deadly things for humans: 1) hubris; 2) believing your taste is the only good one; 3) those who disagree are bad. Progressives have this in spades, but neither US political party has to little of this malady. Those who end up doing bad things to themselves are the example to teach good behavior. If you pretend only the state gets to decide what is good behavior, you have a nation I'll fight against to restore liberty and equal protection (marijuana and alcohol in WA state are legal, but others get you imprisoned or killed by the state).
Stigmatizing is one thing; criminalizing is entirely different. What was the result of Prohibition, the blight upon our amendments and national despotism. Those who prefer force to education+liberty in order to bring about their asserted "better world" (without evidence, just their tastes) are just tyrants. You are not my parent. My risk is my risk. Crimes like distracted driving don't land you in prison with no chance of a job or home, and they also suffer by criminalizing some distractions (but not the majority of them — kids in the car, changing music or temp, being tired or angry, eating, etc.) without sufficiently criminalizing the crashes they create.
If inability to raise your kids is criminal, then poverty is a crime; not reading to your child is criminal; feeding them certain foods is criminal.
I am harming you for your own good…says the parental state to the childish citizen. Yes, putting a citizen in prison or shooting him dead hurts the state more than the citizen.
Perhaps there will be less crime and less drug use even if liberty were restored instead of a state that must take care of you, give you free things, keep you safe from your own ideas and preferences, etc. Depression and anxiety arise more from being told you are a victim and a child by the state than the empowerment of liberty and the acceptance of your preferences.
"Protect people around people making terrible decisions." Yeah, wait for them to commit a real crime and the lock them up, very simple. Also, the burden of proof is on you that it IS a terrible decision. I can do coke once a year without feeling the slightest bit tempted the rest of the year, and it kicks my brain into high gear for a couple hours. If I broke my leg I'd probably want to take heroin for the pain too. I'm 30 years old, stay the FUCK out of my business! Raise some kids if you need to control people.
55:55 so he didnt have permission to sell a plant. If it was 500 tomato plants, would it be adequate to say he deserved to eat and sleep with violent criminals for 3 years of his life? moral argument here is non existent- like the number of people harmed by marijuana.
I am proof that what Alex said about medical marijuana not being effective against pain is untrue! I used opiods (Oxycontin & Methadone) for 25 years for pain caused by a motorcycle accident when I was 25. The pain didn't start until I was 40 or so but it was debilitating at that point. I had neck surgery in 1990 and 2010 & major back surgery in late 1993 as a result. At times I used three Methadone & four Oxycontin a day and even that wouldn't knock out the pain all the time. About three years ago, I decided that I had been taking opiods for too long & against the advice of my doctor I weaned myself off of it over a period of months. After the last opiod I took I had nothing to relieve the pain and OTC products were worthless for me. The state I live in passed a medical marijuana law not long after and when it became available I acquired my medical marijuana license & started using cannabis. After a year of cannabis use I use much less than when I first started and I'm more active, alert and motivated. I drive on a regular basis and have absolutely no problems because I don't get stoned out of my mind. I only use sativa (one puff) once a day & indica (2-3 puffs) at night to help me sleep. My digestive functions have improved dramatically (I was constipated for 25 years) and I've lost weight since quitting opiods. Don't tell me it's not effective with pain because I'm living proof it is!
In theory, I am for the legalization of drugs. As long as they are able to care for their children, pay for their home, food, healthcare (and all of the subsequent ailments they will have from an unhealthy lifestyle), clothing, etc….with THEIR OWN MONEY….I don't see a problem. Unfortunately, this is not the case for most people that regularly use drugs (legal or illegal)…at least not the ones I have encountered. Also, people with addiction issues have trouble maintaining healthy relationships (marital, employment, with their own family/children). If all of this were able to be managed, without costing EVERYONE ELSE who decides not to use drugs…then sure, they should be legal. I just cannot foresee this being managed.
This isn't even a debate. Unless we live in a nanny state, one has every right to do whatever one wants to do with their own body as long as it doesn't impact other people.
Have not watched the whole thing yet, but the biggest problems with substance abuse aren't on legalities but are the way they are because of legality. Decriminalizing narcotics will help heal the people vs feeding the corrupted black market which enjoys substance addicts because it feeds on the destruction of those who are addicted.
6:49 Imagine if these drugs were legal, of course with an age limit like beer, cigarettes, etc. the costs of these could be reduced so much and we could use that money on better mental health institutions or something to make people not want them in the first place
If drugs were legal in America, %80 of black American males would die almost immediately, %15 would capitalize on the opportunity, while the last %5 would just keep going to work.
No. Libertarianism is leading to multiculturalism and the demographic winter setting in
Whenever someone talks about “protecting people” from bad decisions… be assured waves of bullshit are heading your way.
Just decriminalized is better
Ask a Mexican. More than 200k have been killed thanks to prohibition
Look at San Francisco where I live it is a complete shit hole and people are riding away I mean literally rotting away it’s like The Walking Dead and there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of laws and was fucking city regulation does not work
While I agree that adults should be allowed to "kill themselves" as they choose, not only should society not be OBLIGATED/FORCED to help them, those who are in prison for drug crimes still have no one to blame but themselves. Make it legal…THEN you can use it.
If you got caught in an act that was a crime when you did it, you have no one to blame but yourself & we're not obligated to wipe it off of your record once it's been legalized. Unless you ONLY performed the act under complete duress, I have no sympathy for your actions, regardless of my views on the act.
The dude on the right is an idiot and likes to pat himself on the back and cackle about it.
16:15
When Mr. Berenson said we should "keep cannabis, at most, in a decriminalized state", he contaminated any hope he had of making a principled argument against legalization.
YES
I'd bet that asshole who wants to keep drugs illegal is on drugs. He looks like he's sucked a d or two for meth before the debate.
You can walk into a store and buy poison, take it home and put it in your body to get drunk. It'll eventually kill you, but it's legal.
Yes all drugs should be legalized. No one has a right to tell you what you can or can't put in your body.
24:00 We already have cars that CAN drive 200 miles an hours. More vehicles on the road have the ability to go way faster than the speed limits.
Put it to a referendum & find out.
No just marijuana should be totally legal removed from the schedule 1 matter of fact should not be a part from any scheduled drug
as far as the libertarian perspective goes, it is pretty obvious. they have the right to make bad decisions as long as it doesn't interfere with everyone's lives too much.
Drug use should be Decriminalized and professional treatment should be available for addicts.
But, some drugs are just too dangerous to make legal.
Legalization of a drug promotes the idea that a drug is socially acceptable for use, like sugar.
And we know what sugar has done to the health of many individuals, including children.
What's that argument abortion rights advocates use? "It's my body." Yeah, let's apply that logic here while we're at it.
Berenson is an ass and an idiot. I don’t say this to dismiss his opinion, but to chastise the SoHo forum for picking such a trashy debater. I could have done a better job than him and I’m on the opposite side.
I would kill every single person who uses hard drugs by the million if you lined them up for me and gave me a revolver. Right in the face, no mercy. I have no sympathy for those pieces of shit.
Try living in a building with these people and tell me what a great idea it is to let people do heroin or meth.
Alex you're a fuckin idiot. I used meth on a dailey basis for 39 yrs, no arrests, no hospital, no needles, no big withdrawal, quit cold turkey May 19, 2016. Quit smoking after 37 yrs in 99, cold turkey, no cravings. So get fucked, no better yet GO FUCK YOURSELF, ASSHOLE.
Tripolar cause Mania and Depression aren't Enough.
It must be good to imprison the homeless. They actually infringe on the rights of others; they bring disease and violence and drug abuse.
The affirmative, allways, and obviously.
Depression causes bad actors. Being depressed should be a crime and depressed people should be jailed.
You can't just count a percentage of current prisoners, but must include all who ever were imprisoned. Prison destroys most lives going forward, and if they then go to jail later for another crime, you can't just blame the next crime, but the drug crime that put them into the system where they never could escape.
Using the law to force one adult's behavior because it "may harm" some people who "have a predisposition to psychosis" is no way to run a country. By that measure, all must be illegal because a psychotic person can make a balcony dangerous.
Speech and religion can bring some people to violence. Some Muslims take the message and kill large numbers of people to terrorize (not to even get justice). All of this is nonsense. Only the commission of violence is bad, not any action that could cause it among some people when exposed to some amount….
All drugs should be decriminalized, and some more should be legal, but not all legal, that’s a fair proposition
Well here's a novel idea (not really)….. Why not leave it to the states?
He lost me at "Edibles make you think your friends are aliens."
I agree with discouraging their use. Like he said, tobacco usage rates decreased when social stigma was applied, no legislation was needed. Social stigma will keep hard drug rates low regardless of legislation.
I may have missed it, but it seems like he just brushes off the higher rates of standardized mortality as being definitely a result of the drugs being more dangerous and not a complicated set of feedback loops induced by prohibition, that involve the pharmacological effect of the drug, cutting agents, potencies, and the socioeconomic conditions imposed by prohibition.
Why do you think a free and educated people will rush to use opioids like they do alcohol? Most who do not use these do not skip them just because they are illegal — they are certainly available — but because they are smart citizens. Imagine free citizens vs. childlike ones that can only act based on the approval of the state. That's absurd tyranny that drives the crimes and desperation he finds to be ills. We have guns, but we don't all kill each other. We have cars, but we don't mow each other down regularly. We have high roofs and cliffs without jumping off them. We have knives without stabbing one another. We have high fat foods without forcing others to eat them.
i really want to see that socialism debate
Berenson is morally repulsive.
I’m on the side of decriminalizing drugs but I will say that most of the people on my side haven’t met a meth head and are pretty ignorant at what it can do to a community. There is always a point where peoples personal choices begin to affect the people around them.
Never thought a guy who looked like Cosmo Kramer would be against cannabis use
The most potent deadly things for humans: 1) hubris; 2) believing your taste is the only good one; 3) those who disagree are bad. Progressives have this in spades, but neither US political party has to little of this malady. Those who end up doing bad things to themselves are the example to teach good behavior. If you pretend only the state gets to decide what is good behavior, you have a nation I'll fight against to restore liberty and equal protection (marijuana and alcohol in WA state are legal, but others get you imprisoned or killed by the state).
Stigmatizing is one thing; criminalizing is entirely different. What was the result of Prohibition, the blight upon our amendments and national despotism.
Those who prefer force to education+liberty in order to bring about their asserted "better world" (without evidence, just their tastes) are just tyrants. You are not my parent. My risk is my risk. Crimes like distracted driving don't land you in prison with no chance of a job or home, and they also suffer by criminalizing some distractions (but not the majority of them — kids in the car, changing music or temp, being tired or angry, eating, etc.) without sufficiently criminalizing the crashes they create.
If inability to raise your kids is criminal, then poverty is a crime; not reading to your child is criminal; feeding them certain foods is criminal.
I am harming you for your own good…says the parental state to the childish citizen. Yes, putting a citizen in prison or shooting him dead hurts the state more than the citizen.
Perhaps there will be less crime and less drug use even if liberty were restored instead of a state that must take care of you, give you free things, keep you safe from your own ideas and preferences, etc. Depression and anxiety arise more from being told you are a victim and a child by the state than the empowerment of liberty and the acceptance of your preferences.
Summary of the prohibitionist side: "Sometimes people do bad things when they are on drugs."
Things we stigmatized
-tobacco
-drinking and driving
-drinking during pregnancy
-drug use
Addicts still do all these thinks you maniac. Drugs have been stigmatized. It doesn't help. But yeah, keep doing the same things with the same outcome
anti drug guy made a good case that drugs might be really bad that i didnt think but fighting the market is stupid
Yes.
"Protect people around people making terrible decisions." Yeah, wait for them to commit a real crime and the lock them up, very simple. Also, the burden of proof is on you that it IS a terrible decision. I can do coke once a year without feeling the slightest bit tempted the rest of the year, and it kicks my brain into high gear for a couple hours. If I broke my leg I'd probably want to take heroin for the pain too. I'm 30 years old, stay the FUCK out of my business! Raise some kids if you need to control people.
Legalizing drugs can help the economy by taxing them. But what about the people that OD.
55:55 so he didnt have permission to sell a plant. If it was 500 tomato plants, would it be adequate to say he deserved to eat and sleep with violent criminals for 3 years of his life? moral argument here is non existent- like the number of people harmed by marijuana.
I am proof that what Alex said about medical marijuana not being effective against pain is untrue! I used opiods (Oxycontin & Methadone) for 25 years for pain caused by a motorcycle accident when I was 25. The pain didn't start until I was 40 or so but it was debilitating at that point. I had neck surgery in 1990 and 2010 & major back surgery in late 1993 as a result. At times I used three Methadone & four Oxycontin a day and even that wouldn't knock out the pain all the time. About three years ago, I decided that I had been taking opiods for too long & against the advice of my doctor I weaned myself off of it over a period of months. After the last opiod I took I had nothing to relieve the pain and OTC products were worthless for me. The state I live in passed a medical marijuana law not long after and when it became available I acquired my medical marijuana license & started using cannabis. After a year of cannabis use I use much less than when I first started and I'm more active, alert and motivated. I drive on a regular basis and have absolutely no problems because I don't get stoned out of my mind. I only use sativa (one puff) once a day & indica (2-3 puffs) at night to help me sleep. My digestive functions have improved dramatically (I was constipated for 25 years) and I've lost weight since quitting opiods. Don't tell me it's not effective with pain because I'm living proof it is!
In theory, I am for the legalization of drugs. As long as they are able to care for their children, pay for their home, food, healthcare (and all of the subsequent ailments they will have from an unhealthy lifestyle), clothing, etc….with THEIR OWN MONEY….I don't see a problem. Unfortunately, this is not the case for most people that regularly use drugs (legal or illegal)…at least not the ones I have encountered. Also, people with addiction issues have trouble maintaining healthy relationships (marital, employment, with their own family/children). If all of this were able to be managed, without costing EVERYONE ELSE who decides not to use drugs…then sure, they should be legal. I just cannot foresee this being managed.
This isn't even a debate. Unless we live in a nanny state, one has every right to do whatever one wants to do with their own body as long as it doesn't impact other people.
Criminals do not want to legalize all drugs bc they will lose money. Legalize the use but not the abuse of drugs.🎈
Have not watched the whole thing yet, but the biggest problems with substance abuse aren't on legalities but are the way they are because of legality. Decriminalizing narcotics will help heal the people vs feeding the corrupted black market which enjoys substance addicts because it feeds on the destruction of those who are addicted.